Important Notice:
We regret to inform you that our free phpBB forum hosting service will be discontinued by the end of June 30, 2024.
If you wish to migrate to our paid hosting service, please contact billing@hostonnet.com.
 |
|
 |
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| |
 |
 |
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: 4e Homebrew: Class-Feature Feats |
 |
Philosophy
Paragon Paths are all about versatility. They provide your characters with abilities that you gain in addition to your class, as opposed to instead of. This versatility takes a step further when combined with multiclassing, as it allows one to take Paragon Paths meant for other classes.
However, the way multiclass rules are currently written, some PP's are simply inaccessible to those who do not start off their characters as that specific class.
Most DM's house rule this by simply allowing the combinations to work regardless of RAW. However, I prefer to work with RAW as much as possible, as I give the game designers the benefit of the doubt that they had good reason for such restrictions. As such, my solution is this.
Class-Feature Feats
Class-Feature Feats are an extension of the Multiclassing Feats, in that it gives you more abilities that are available to the class that you delved into. This helps you feel more like a hybrid of both classes, and less like a character who merely dabbled into a second class.
A character who takes a Class Feature Feat counts as having that Class Feature for the purpose of meeting prerequisites for taking other feats and qualifying for paragon paths and/or epic destinies. |
    |
|
|
|
 |
 |
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
 |
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
ARCANE IMPLEMENT MASTERY [WIZARD CLASS FEATURE]
Pre-requisite: Arcane Initiate
Benefit: Choose either the Orb, the Staff, or the Wand. You specialize in that implement and gain the following abilities, which you can use while wielding the indicated implement:
Orb: Once per day, you designate one creature you have cast a wizard spell upon that has an effect that lasts until the subject succeeds on a saving throw. That creature takes a penalty to its saving throws against that effect equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Staff: Once per day as an immediate interrupt, you gain a bonus to defense against one attack equal to your Constitution modifier.
Wand: Once per day as a free action, you gain a bonus to a single attack roll equal to your dexterity modifier.
ARCHER FIGHTING STYLE [RANGER CLASS FEATURE]
Pre-requisite: Warrior of the Wild
Benefit: Once per round as a free action, you can gain a +2 bonus to AC against an opportunity attack
Special: You cannot take this feat if you have the Two-Blade Fighting Style Feat. The bonus to AC does not stack with that granted by the Defensive Mobility feat.
COMBAT SUPERIORITY [FIGHTER CLASS FEATURE]
Pre-requisite: Student of the Sword, Wis 13
Benefit: Opponents hit by your opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack. If it has actions remaining, it can use them to resume moving.
TWO-BLADE FIGHTING STYLE [RANGER CLASS FEATURE]
Pre-requisite: Warrior of the Wild
Benefit: Because of your focus on two-weapon melee attacks, you can wield a one-handed weapon in your off hand as if it were an off-hand weapon. (Make sure to designate on your character sheet which weapon is main and which is offhand.)
Special: You cannot take this feat if you have the Archer Fighting Style Feat. |
|
Last edited by BJ on Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Pitz-Ikko
|
D' Original Henio
|
| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a discussion thread, but here goes anyway. The idea is okay, but the specifics seem too powerful.
The Archery Style's +2 bonus to AC vs. OA as 1/round? That sounds too good. Maybe 1/encounter?
Although the Two-Blade Fighting Style feat sounds flat at first [what really good use would a non-Ranger have for wielding two one-handers?], it gets really powerful once power-swapping occurs (although I relish the idea of a WoST wielding two longsword implements!). How about, 1/day or 1/encounter as a free action, the damage dice of the off-hand weapon can be increased by 1 step for the next attack in that turn?
Again, I'm not against the idea of class feature feats. But I believe giving away static (or virtually at-will) effects is just going too far.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
1st off, heck yeah this is a Discussion Thread.  I want to polish it, and would welcome any feedback. If this turns out good enough, I'll even make it Bonethrall-official.
Now, on to the specifics:
*Archery Style: I made it 1/round because Defensive Mobility has it constantly on. Now that I think about it, though, 1/encounter seems better.
*TB Fighting Style: Changing damage die 1/encounter or 1/day is... clunky. Also, it doesn't achieve the feel of the TBFS Class Feature, as you'd still be wielding Off-Hand Weapons.
Besides, while agreeably really strong (I still remember Monkey Grip and Wield Oversized Weapon), the damage output is still not broken.
I too relish the idea of a WotS with two Longsword Implements. Add in Blade Cascade... 
Oh, before we continue, we should probably define a few terms (how I'll be using them in this thread, at least):
*Strong: Pertains to damage. Something is strong if it's on the upper limit, or exceeds the upper limit, of Damage Potential. (Ex. Rain of Blows is Strong). Something that far exceeds the upper limit would instead be considered broken. Note. I refrained from using powerful to negate whatever minute references to the word power. 
*Optimal: Pertains to capability to perform your role. A defender that deals more damage than a striker is not optimal, he is strong (striker options that deal lots of damage are both strong and optimal). If a particular choice or combination of choices makes you the best at your role, then the choice/s are considered optimal.
*Broken: Pertains to effects that make the game trivial. Something that is broken is in need of fixing.
Ex. A single power that defeats a solo of much higher level.
Ex. Combinations that make a 15th level defender unhittable by 25th level monsters.
Ex. Blade Cascade before the errata.
Case in Point. Two-Blade Fighting Style is strong, in that it makes you damage as a, well, Ranger. Since the idea is to be a hybrid striker anyway, I don't see that as too much of a problem.
_________________
Nosfecatu Publishing |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Pitz-Ikko
|
D' Original Henio
|
| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
|
| BJ wrote: | | Case in Point. Two-Blade Fighting Style is strong, in that it makes you damage as a, well, Ranger. Since the idea is to be a hybrid striker anyway, I don't see that as too much of a problem. |
Noted. Still, the feat feels almost exactly like the real class feature (minus the Toughness part). It shouldn't be so; a hybrid ranger shouldn't be as good in a class feature as a true ranger, thus my attempt to power down the feat.
Then again, you can say that it already is powered down for excluding Toughness... 
_________________
A little surprising, really...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
erwin
|
Master of None
|
| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
I actually find this feats unnecessary.
If it's about the Ranger PP, we could just ignore the twoblade/archery requirements. As for the WotST, we could just make the character choose any wizard implement, even if he's not "specialized" with it.
EDIT: Didn't read your first clearly (about DMs being RAW) before, but I still stand my point.
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | | Then again, you can say that it already is powered down for excluding Toughness... |
That was originally my rationale. However, I'm perfectly willing to consider more alternatives.
How about this?
| Quote: | | Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with your off-hand weapon. |
Less clunky, although it still promotes that TWF feel.
| erwin wrote: | I actually find this feats unnecessary.
If it's about the Ranger PP, we could just ignore the twoblade/archery requirements. As for the WotST, we could just make the character choose any wizard implement, even if he's not "specialized" with it. |
For Bonethrall (as tech team head), I prefer to use RAW as much as possible. Now while I could instead change the RAW with our Adaptations thread so as the options are available, I find adding to rules as opposed to changing them better suited.
_________________
Nosfecatu Publishing |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Pitz-Ikko
|
D' Original Henio
|
| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
| BJ wrote: | | Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with your off-hand weapon. |
I think that sounds nice.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
erwin
|
Master of None
|
| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: |
|
Ok, so we'll do RAW then. 
| BJ wrote: | | Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with your off-hand weapon. |
I find this weak. If you just multiclassed to ranger, you won't even get to use your off-hand weapon as often as a ranger is, other than on the ranger powers you swapped (if you did). Also, rangers don't even have that +1 damage to off hand.
| BJ wrote: | | Staff: Once per day as an immediate interrupt, you gain a bonus to defense against one attack equal to your Constitution modifier. |
where's my +1 AC? 
| Pitz_Ikko wrote: | | *Archery Style: I made it 1/round because Defensive Mobility has it constantly on. Now that I think about it, though, 1/encounter seems better. |
I agree on Pitz_Ikko, better make this 1/encounter. It would already outmatch (at least match) an Artful Dodger Rogue.
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Pitz-Ikko
|
D' Original Henio
|
| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
|
| erwin wrote: | | BJ wrote: | | Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with your off-hand weapon. |
I find this weak. If you just multiclassed to ranger, you won't even get to use your off-hand weapon as often as a ranger is, other than on the ranger powers you swapped (if you did). Also, rangers don't even have that +1 damage to off hand. |
It is actually nice. Sure, it would be weak for the typical MC'd Ranger, but the feat is built anyway with power-swapping (or MC-Ranger paragon paths) in mind. That makes the feat only useful in a very narrow range of circumstances, which is what it aims to be.
Example: A rogue MCs into ranger. Sure, he finds the Two-Blade Fighting Style feat as being not worth the trouble. Then again, he finds the Stormwarden paragon path rather interesting. Too bad, he needs the 2-blade ranger class feature. Oh well, he guesses he needs to take the class feature feat anyway. It's not as good as the real class feature, but at least it's got some nifty bonus. And it sure makes him elligible for the paragon path...
_________________
A little surprising, really...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Pitz-Ikko
|
D' Original Henio
|
| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
| erwin wrote: | | Pitz_Ikko wrote: | | *Archery Style: I made it 1/round because Defensive Mobility has it constantly on. Now that I think about it, though, 1/encounter seems better. |
I agree on Pitz_Ikko, better make this 1/encounter. It would already outmatch (at least match) an Artful Dodger Rogue. |
Oh, just so we're clear: I did not write whatever erwin is quoting me to be saying. It's actually BJ who posted that. 
_________________
A little surprising, really...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
| erwin wrote: | | I find this weak. If you just multiclassed to ranger, you won't even get to use your off-hand weapon as often as a ranger is, other than on the ranger powers you swapped (if you did). Also, rangers don't even have that +1 damage to off hand. |
I would love to hear your alternative.
| Quote: | | where's my +1 AC? |
I could give either that or the defense bonus once/day. Which one do you prefer?
| Quote: | | I agree on Pitz_Ikko, better make this 1/encounter. It would already outmatch (at least match) an Artful Dodger Rogue. |
For the record, Artful Dodger is always on. Defensive Mobility is likewise always on. Limiting it to 1/round certainly doesn't match the Artful Dodger Rogue.
Point is moot, however. I already decided to shift it to 1/encounter.
_________________
Nosfecatu Publishing |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
erwin
|
Master of None
|
| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
| BJ wrote: | | I would love to hear your alternative. |
Let's just leave it with allowing it to wield one-handed weapons on the off-hand.
| BJ wrote: | | I could give either that or the defense bonus once/day. Which one do you prefer? |
Hmm, good point.
| BJ wrote: | | Point is moot, however. I already decided to shift it to 1/encounter. |
Alright then.
The Combat Superiority seems fine. Me likes it
Though why make it? There isn't actually a PP that requires it anyway.
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
erwin
|
Master of None
|
| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
I think he was expecting the bonus to OA. 
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BJ
|
He Who Founds Wyrmlings
|
| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
Yeah, I initially wanted to put that, instead. Then it hit me that stopping movement is more defender-ish than having a bonus to attack rolls.
_________________
Nosfecatu Publishing |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
All times are GMT + 8 Hours |
 |
|
| |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
| |
|
|
