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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: [D&D4] Kat'ha Gestalt Rules |
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Hiya, guys. I just finished a heroic-tier campaign for my kid brother, and he's interested in another. This time, I want to make it a gestalt campaign, with him playing his PC and me playing an NPC backup (in effect, a 2-player campaign).
Here's my take on D&D 4E Gestalt. Try looking it over, and your comments/suggestions are welcome. Note that these rules were designed with low party membership in mind, so if the party is 4+, these rules might be too unwieldy as the PCs become too powerful.
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Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition
KAT'HA: THE TREE OF WORLDS
GESTALT RULES
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26-Point Buy System
Players are given a [10,10,10,10,10,8] stat array and 26 points with which to improve these stat scores for building their characters.
Classes
The player can choose two classes for his/her character. The character thus begins as a multiclass character, and are no longer allowed to take Multiclass feats.
Proficiencies
The character gains weapon and armour proficiencies from all of his/her classes.
For example, a Fighter-Wizard gains the proficiencies of both the Fighter and the Wizard.
Implements
Any implement works only with the powers, abilities, and features of the class to which it normally applies.
For example, a Cleric-Fighter cannot use a holy symbol with Fighter powers.
Class Features and Bonuses
The character gains all the features and bonuses of all his/her classes – unless different bonuses are applied on the same attribute, in which case the higher bonus supersedes the other (the bonuses don’t stack).
For example, a Warlock-Rogue gains +2 Reflex and +1 Will bonuses to defences (instead of +3 Reflex and +1 Will if the bonuses stacked).
Hit Points and Healing Surges
The character gains the greater value (HP at 1st Level, HP per Level Gained, Healing Surges per Day) from either class.
For example, a Wizard-Swordmage will have 15+Con HP at 1st level, 6 HP per level thereafter, and 8+ConMod Surges per Day.
Skills
The character gains automatic trained skills from both basic classes, and considers class skills from both classes as class skills. The number of starting trained skills (in addition to the automatic skills) the character has is equal to that given by the class that offers more + 2.
For example, a Ranger has Dungeoneering or Nature as an automatic skill, and four other skills. A Paladin has Religion as an automatic skill, and three other skills. A Ranger-Paladin will then have Religion and Dungeoneering/Nature as automatic skills, and six (4 from Ranger + 2) additional skills, choosing from the both lists of class skills.
Powers
The character gains powers from both his/her classes when s/he would normally gain a power from levelling up. In effect, his/her power list is doubled.
For example, an Elf Ranger-Paladin would have four at-will attack powers, two encounter attack powers, and two daily attack powers at 1st level.
Feats
The character gains and chooses feats as normal, with the exception that s/he cannot avail of multiclassing feats. S/he is also considered a multiclass character (considering both his/her classes) for purposes of qualifying for feats.
For example, a Human Fighter-Cleric can choose any non-multiclassing feat that requires him/her to either be a Fighter, a Cleric, or both.
Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies
The character can select only one paragon path and only one epic destiny. For such purposes, the character is considered to be a member of both his/her classes.
For example, a Human Fighter-Ranger can choose any paragon path and epic destiny that requires him/her to either be a Fighter, a Ranger, or both.
Level and Experience
For purposes of calculating experience points and formulating the Encounter Level and treasure, a character using these gestalt rules is considered to be one level higher than the actual character level.
For example, a 5th level Human Ranger-Rogue is considered to be 6th level when calculating the XP gained from encounters and treasure gained. All other aspects (such as the level modifier to attacks) are calculated as normal.
Levelling Up and Retraining
Retraining rules are as normal except as stated here. When retraining a power, the character can only choose a new power from the power list of the class to which the old power belonged.
For example, a 6th-level Cleric-Rogue wishes to retrain clever riposte [Rog Atk 5]. She can then only choose from her Rogue power list (and not from the Cleric list) when picking the replacement power.
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If you wish to add something, please feel free to do so. If I like 'em, I'll add 'em here and properly reference the originator. 
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A little surprising, really...
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting concepts. I'm still working atm, so i can't comment too extensively yet, but...
What are your goals? Are you trying to make a character as strong as two characters? Somewhere in the middle? Or just a bit more awesome than normal?
You see, there's this idea of using the monster templates for players. Add one extra action (Standard, Move, Minor, +1) so they can have two attacks, and Increase their defenses a bit. Give them xp as if each were two characters. Give them a new AP after every encounter, and allow them to use up to 2 per encounter.
If you try doing that and mesh them with these current gestalt rules, it might feel even more interesting.
I'll comment another day, when I actually have the time to sit down and think it through more thouroughly.
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Nosfecatu Publishing |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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My gestalt rules were designed with 1-2 players in mind. Low party membership means tougher combat encounters. And yes, the encounter is suited for the lower party membership, but still, not having enough members to split the enemies' attention still makes for tougher decisions and tactics.
In this way, multiclassing and power-pumping gets rolled into one. The PC gets to fully enjoy the perks of both classes, and s/he gets the powers from both to boot! Like I said in the first post, this is designed for very low party membership as the PCs tend to be overpowered. But, hey, if you find yourself pawning your players too many times, then go ahead! 
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A little surprising, really...
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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It's kinda like Elite players, am i right?
I think it better if you give it another AP, just like elite monsters.
Though they're still limited to 1 AP/encounter, they'll most likely be using APs every encounter. 
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There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| erwin wrote: | It's kinda like Elite players, am i right?
I think it better if you give it another AP, just like elite monsters.
Though they're still limited to 1 AP/encounter, they'll most likely be using APs every encounter. |
I thought about it before, but a Human with Action Surge is just too much to handle . Besides, two sets of powers? I think that's more than enough firepower.
My kid bro is contemplating a Stormsoul-Genasi Swordmage (Shield) / Warlock (Infernal). With that in mind, methinks I'm gonna supply an Elf Laser Cleric-Rogue backup.
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A little surprising, really...
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | I thought about it before, but a Human with Action Surge is just too much to handle . Besides, two sets of powers? I think that's more than enough firepower.
My kid bro is contemplating a Stormsoul-Genasi Swordmage (Shield) / Warlock (Infernal). With that in mind, methinks I'm gonna supply an Elf Laser Cleric-Rogue backup. |
What's wrong with a human spending an AP per encounter? Since he invested the feat on it anyway, he deserves the bonus.
Also, two sets of powers would be useless if you can't use them all, you're going to need more actions (thus pointing to what BJ said).
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, you guys are really strong on the AP bonus. Well, since it's just 1 AP per encounter, maybe...
I've already playtested the gestalt, and my issue with bonus actions is that they do become too powerful. I don't know how it scales to higher levels, but at levels 1-3, it sure becomes way easy to clear the battlefield.
Besides, two classes allow for even greater versatility and defenses (at least, according to the class combinations). Plus, having more encounter/daily attacks sure can go a long way in dealing with baddies. More powers mean more damage to deal out over the course of the encounter. No real need to speed up the encounter further with additional actions IMO.
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A little surprising, really...
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is you'll be just 2 people. Even if you can do so much, once one gets down, it's a big loss to the party (of two).
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, good point. But I'm not really a PC-slayer sort of DM (unlike some, hmmm). The previous campaign I told you about was also just my kid bro's PC and an NPC (2 players), and they both made it thru.
Nevertheless, I think I like the idea of one additional action per round to the PCs. You think I should include the BBEGs in this?
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A little surprising, really...
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