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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: Masterclass Character Workshops |
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Here's a thought, guys. Masterclass Character workshop thread. Post your characters as works in progress for critiquing and recommendations, especially for the freakishly tough and weird builds.
On this end, I'd need some help too, so let me kick it off by posting a gish build recommended by BJ that I'm working on. Crusader 4, Sorc 2, Abjurant Champ 4, Jade Pheonix 8 (Starting at level 18 for dark axis' Dark Sun campaign)
Stats rolled: 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, 13.
Unnamed Gish CR 18
LG Medium Human
Init +2; Senses Spot +2, Search +1, Listen -3
Languages Common, Draconic, Celestial
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AC 41, 16 touch , 37 flat-footed (+12 Luminous Armor, +5 enhancement, +8 shield spell, +2 dex, +4 deflection)
hp (10+8d10+2d4+8d6+126) (231 average); DR
Immune fire (first 5 times per day)
Resist fire 5 (first 5 times per day); SR (CR+)
Fort +23, Ref +11, Will +23
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Speed 30ft base land, 30 ft fly (perfect) (see items later)
Melee +27 +5 Talon Sceptre of Disarming (1d6+10+1d6 fire crit x2)
Ranged
Space ;Reach
Base Atk +17 ; Grp +22
Atk Options
Special Actions
Combat Gear +5 Padded Armor of Freedom, +5 Talon Sceptre of disarming, Pheonix Cloak.
XXX Spells Prepared (CL 12)
Epic (/day) -
9th (/day) -
8th (/day) -
7th (/day) -
6th (4/day) - Disintegrate
5th (6/day) - (No ideas, 2 unassigned)
4th (7/day) - Greater Luminous Armor (BED), Orb of Force and Fire,
3rd (8/day) - (no ideas, 4 unassigned)
2nd (8/day) - Wraith strike
1st (8/day) - Shield, Magic Missile, Mage Armor, (2 unassigned)
0th (6/day) - (9 unassigned)
Maneuvers Known:9, Granted: 3 Initiator Level: 15
Crusader Strike, Leading the Attack, Vanguard Strike, Charging Minotaur, Foehammer, White Raven Tactics, Revitalizing Strike, Searing Blade, Radiant Charge, Rallying Strike
Stances: Martial Spirit, Leading the Charge, Aura of Perfect Order
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Abilities Str - 20 (base 16), Dex - 14, Con - 24 (base 18 ), Int - 13, Wis 13, Cha 25 (base 19)
SQ
Feats Inattentive (flaw), Loner (flaw), Improved Toughness, Extra Granted Maneuver, Combat Casting, Pointblank Shot, Battlecaster Defense & Offense, Arcane Strike, Arcane Preparation (for Sanctified spells), Precise Shot, 1 unassigned
Epic Feats
Skills Concentration +28, Diplomacy +19, Intimidate +16, Knw(Arcana) +6, Knw(History) +8, Knw(Religion)+5, Martial Lore +6, Spellcraft +16, Tumble +23
Possessions
Upgraded Regalia of the Pheonix (Magic Item Compendium):
Crown of Flames (+6 Cha), Pheonix Cloak (fly at base land speed, perfect maneuver), Raptor's Mask (blind/dazzle immune, +5 spot), +5 Talon Sceptre of Disarming.
Upgraded Blood Claw Choker +6 Con (MIC, 2xday regain one Sorc spell slot Lv 1-5, take 2xslot level in damage),
+5 Padded Armor of Freedom of Movement,
Vest of Resistance +5,
Ring of Spell Battle (MIC, auto sense all spellcasting w/in 60ft, 1/day dispel or redirect the spell), ROP+4,
Bracers of Entangling Blast (MIC, 3xday, halve the damage of a spell, target is entangled 1d3 rounds, takes damage equal to spell's level each round NO SAVE for entangle),
Belt of Giant Strength,
6000gp unassigned.
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Notes:
-Regalia of the Pheonix provides fire immunity 5xday, fire resist 5xday, and heal (CL11) once per day when at 0 to -9 hp.
-Unsure about the effectiveness of the Bracers of Entangling Blast and Ring of Spell-Battle. Bracers are a no-save entangling effect so looks interesting, but not sure as to effectiveness. If no good, may replace for the rest of the Instruments of the Blood Gift, another set item that sacrifices hp for sorceror casting boosts. Spell-battle is good for passive sensing of magic, and the redirect is cute, even if 1xday. Still, may swap out for ROP+5 instead.
-Am thinking of swapping out the disarming feature of the Sceptre. It prevents disarms and funky :consored:, but adds +28k to cost. Could use that to upgun the belt of giant strength to +6
-Need ideas for good spell loadouts!
C&C away people!
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3260 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Suggestions for now. I might suggest better later. ^__^
Spells.
9th (/day) - shapechange
8th (/day) - greater celerity
7th (/day) - delayed blast fireball, finger of death, limited wish
6th (4/day) - greater dispel magic
5th (6/day) - cloudkill, improved blink
4th (7/day) - celerity, greater invisibility
3rd (8/day) - alter fortune, displacement, haste
2nd (8/day) -
1st (8/day) - true strike, magic missile
0th (6/day) - prestidigitation
Cloudkill is a very good spell. Fort partial, no sr.
Orbs because you know what.
Limited wish. Because it's a wish.
Get any teleportation spell.
Check exalted raiment. BOED pp 99. It is an abjuration spell that gives sacred bonus to AC. It should stack with Luminous armor. That's 2+4 sacred bonus to AC. Amulet of natural armor will be also be a good investment. ^__^
Feats.
| Quote: | | Feats Inattentive (flaw), Loner (flaw), Improved Toughness, Extra Granted Maneuver, Combat Casting, Pointblank Shot, Battlecaster Defense & Offense, Arcane Strike, Arcane Preparation (for Sanctified spells), Precise Shot, 1 unassigned |
We did feats duscussion in im.
rapid metamagic
quicken spell
practiced spellcaster
reserve feat.
| Quote: | | Skills Concentration +28, Diplomacy +19, Intimidate +16, Knw(Arcana) +6, Knw(History) +8, Knw(Religion)+5, Martial Lore +6, Spellcraft +16, Tumble +23 |
No love for knowledge arcana?  I don't see any epic spellcasting on your career.
DId you already fix your HP? You miscalculated it. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: |
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I just checked. Knowledge Arcana is not JPM's class skill.
At level 20, your sorcerer spellcasting level is 14. Too far to satisfy Epic Spellcasting prereq. You may want to focus on your spellcasting side and maximize your ranks in knowledge arcana. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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You may not use my suggested Rapid metamagic since you have arcane preparation.
You may use Metamagic Rod of quicken (?) instead of getting the quicken spell feat. |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtian wrote: | You may not use my suggested Rapid metamagic since you have arcane preparation.
You may use Metamagic Rod of quicken (?) instead of getting the quicken spell feat. |
That's a thought. I need to sit down for a while and do a thorough rebuild. The ideas you've posted, and last night's YM marathon are giving me lots of ideas. Discarding certain parts of the Regalia of the Pheonix frees up some of my options. Current thoughts include a big sword, and then some other buff stuff, and a thorough read through of the metamagic options.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know if you prioritize flavor over optimization or vice versa but at high levels, even with ToB, magic pawns everything. And even pre-ToB, strong gish builds tend to have higher emphasis on spellcasting side than martial side. |
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't jade phoenix require a deity or something???? And crusaders too right???? Try to clear it up with me first or explain why i should it be like that or provide a character background.
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Whenever the levels start going into double digits, the martial-based characters should begin going anti-mage. Maxing out Occult Slayer (CW) is almost a must.
Like Xtian said, it's more like you'll be going for flavor than power. The build just won't cut it in high-powered, high-level campaigns. But if you're willing to let the gold flow, you may be able to offset your weaknesses with magic items (like cube of force or starmantle cloak).
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| dark_axis wrote: | | Doesn't jade phoenix require a deity or something???? And crusaders too right???? Try to clear it up with me first or explain why i should it be like that or provide a character background. |
Neither requires a deity. Crusaders are devoted to a cause, not necessarily a religion. It may be moral, philosophical, political, etc. DS wise, it may be dedicated to the obliteration of the former dragon king and his supporters (or maybe even a clandestine movement to destroy all dragon kings).
Jade Pheonix Mage also does not require a deity, as you are supposed to be the reincarnated soul of a Jade Pheonix master, dedicated to fighting an evil called the Souldrake (base 9s flavor). In translation to DS, it could be a society of martial mages/sorcerors dedicated to the overthrow of one or more dragon kings, ala Veiled Alliance. Maybe the Jade Pheonix decided that reincarnation was the answer to mass disruption in the organization caused by dragon king purges.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3260 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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How about Witch Slayer 5/Occult Slayer 5? 
Mettle and slippery mind in one package plus momentary disjunction. ^__^
It seems that either you become a caster or become an anti-caster.
Anyway in between is pawned. |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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hmm... maybe you could take your level of crusader later on so you have a higher IL. that should give you some maneuvers of a decent level, then more later on as a JPM. not as much as crus 4, true, but you will get access to level 8 spells. also, note that crus2/sor4 coupled with practiced spellcaster rounds out your CL at a flat 20 if you continue with JPM (assuming you haven't applied bonuses from, say, ioun stones yet).
you could also take the martial study/martial stance feats route described in B9S. that requires several feats, but given that flaws are open then that shouldn't be too costly. that route gives less hp and BAB, but you get access to 9th level spells. plus, this route no longer necessarily requires practiced spellcaster. it'll help of course, but it won't be as crucial as the crusX/sorY case.
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And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Oh i was thingking about hte ruby knight vindicator or something... my bad 
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Gah. This project is looking more and more mind-numbing the more I try to tweak it. I can build dedicated fighters and dedicated casters, but combining both well is a headache for me, as I have to cross-ref so many books.
I think I may have to stick to plain warmage for simplicity's sake, though I'm still looking through the options.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Last edited by Revan on Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3260 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Check this builds out:
Phantom Knight and Eldritch Knight are interchangeable.
Sorcerer6/Eldritchknight9/AbjurantChampion5 with otherworldly/militia feat = BAB 17 CL 19.
Alternatively, Sorcerer6/Eldritchknight8/AbjurantChampion4/Dragon Slayer1/Spellsword1 with otherworldly/militia feat. = BAB 17 CL 19 with 10% less ASF, and proficiency with all armors. Requires dodge and iron will.
Paladin 2/sorcerer 6/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight6 .
BAB 17 CL 17. Divine grace but no access to 9th level spell unless you're a kobold with greater draconic rite of passage. Divine Grace is nice though.
Fighter 1/sorcerer 6/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight7 .
BAB 17 CL 17. 9th level spell. Only feat required is combat casting. |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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iirc, Revan wanted the JPM for flavor.  So maybe we should stick with it.
If you want to increase spellcasting, I suggest foregoing Crusader, as the Pwnage Lord suggested. Maybe Sor5/Swordsage1/JPhM10,then start picking off abjurant champ. This at least brings you up to level 8 spells then and there. This, however, lessens your BA to... +16?(which prolly isn't so bad, all things considered)
You could also say screw sorcerer, and go for abjurer. You'll actually reach level9 spells by level20, albeit you'll have the messy task of lugging around a spellbook.
Originally, the build was meant for maneuvers offensive/spells defensive. If you plan on powerpacking your spells, then why not just go arcanist pure?
*cough* *weneed* *cough* *meatshield* *cough*
Will think about this more thouroughly
_________________
Nosfecatu Publishing |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BJ wrote: | | iirc, Revan wanted the JPM for flavor. So maybe we should stick with it. |
Well, you remembered it wrong. He wanted JPM for maneuvers and spells, not for flavor.
And, I was referring to this one:
| Quote: | | but combining both well is a headache for me, |
Doing the classic gish is easier and failsafe than combining maneuvers and spellcasting. Since he's having hard time combining them I suggested going to the more fail-safe builds.
And gish builds favor spontaneous than preparations, even with the disadvatage of slower access to spell levels. Combined with quicken spell and rapid metamagic, you are fighting and blasting at the same time. |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And gish builds favor spontaneous than preparations, even with the disadvatage of slower access to spell levels. Combined with quicken spell and rapid metamagic, you are fighting and blasting at the same time. |
Tell me why this can't be done by a wiz with quicken spell. You don't even need rapid meta.
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Nosfecatu Publishing |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BJ wrote: | | Quote: | | And gish builds favor spontaneous than preparations, even with the disadvatage of slower access to spell levels. Combined with quicken spell and rapid metamagic, you are fighting and blasting at the same time. |
Tell me why this can't be done by a wiz with quicken spell. You don't even need rapid meta. |
First off, that is a loaded statement. I never claimed nor never implied that wiz can't quicken a spell.
The point is that gish is not the primary caster. In an encounter, a gish has to decide between casting a spell or whacking his enemy. So, the action of a gish is very limited and he does not need knowing all spells. Spontaneity gives him freedom to cast what spell when. Yes a wiz can prepare quickened spells but deciding on how many and what spells are a headaches. With spontaneous, he goes into combat whacking and blasting as if he's power is unlimited while using a wiz he goes into combat as if he has a limited ammo supply. With the feat arcane strike, it gets more complicated. With spontaneous, a gish is like superman. With wiz, a gish is like a batman.
Rapid metamagic+quicken spell gives a lot more freedom.
Leave the utility to wizards. What a gish needs is some buff, spells with fort based save, reflex based save, will bases save, some spells that ignore sr, and few utility spells. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: Sorry |
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No updates for quite a while guys, since my PC crashed recently. If and when I can get everything up and running at home, I figure I'll have the time to rebuild this character.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Acid Blue
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Old Dragon
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| Joined: 06 Mar 2007 |
| Posts: 415 |
| Location: Somewhere out there... |
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hey maybe you guys can help me with this. The foloowing are just conceptual builds:
1. Crusader 8/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 5/ Justicar 5
2. Rogue 2/Warblade 6/Bloodclaw Master 10
the crusadrer's devoted spirit focused, and Warblade's tiger claw, iron heart, and diamond mind based
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let M = number of ninja and N = Ninjitsu Level, then N takes the general form of N = a/(bM)^c |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Acid Blue wrote: |
1. Crusader 8/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 5/ Justicar 5 |
I'm wondering on this one, since, if I remember it correctly, you need divine spell casting to get into RKVindicator. Where are you getting cleric casting and for what purposes? And the classic question of all semi-gish builds: Combat or Casting?
And I thought you were working on a Jade Pheonix idea too? (kind of why I was letting this build slide, as I thought you'd take it up, leaving me to explore other variants.)
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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oghma
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Ancient Dragon
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| Joined: 20 Mar 2007 |
| Posts: 857 |
| Location: The Happy Hunting Grounds |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, since I'm new to divine spellcasting and etc. I'm still in the dark as to which class will be synergistic. As of now I'm planning to take Cleric 6/Radiant Servant (Maxed Out), may I ask if I should resume getting cleric levels or add another PrC?
EDIT: BTW, this is just your basic Persistent DMMing cleric, as recommended by jaykie.
_________________
"I should mug people to this song. I'll get so many silver points." -Random youtuber
"LOL! If someone mugged me while this song was playing, I would know that they meant business. " -another random youtuber |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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depends on what you want. RSoP makes for a very effective turning cleric, so consider things like Sacred Exorcist and/or Hierophant. There's always Contemplative of course, which is very good for pretty much any cleric build. You could also try some of the "martial" cleric classes to make the most of your persistified buffs. Up to you, really.
Note: you might want to look into a class with higher HD (d8 up) post-RSoP. that d6 hit die really hurts, so you'll need a fairly good Con score to compensate. :/
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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oghma
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Ancient Dragon
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| Joined: 20 Mar 2007 |
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| Location: The Happy Hunting Grounds |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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np. btw, the abovementioned stuff is in complete divine, aside from hierophant, which is in the DMG.
in any case, you don't really need to look much further from CDiv to get lots of ideas. 
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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erwin
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Master of None
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| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtian wrote: | Fighter 1/sorcerer 6/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight7 .
BAB 17 CL 17. 9th level spell. Only feat required is combat casting. |
What if i changed fighter with marshal, and making it:
Marshal 2/sorcerer 6/abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 6
although it has lower caster lvl and BAB, it has Aura! 
Just want to use that Cha bonus for something
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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Last edited by erwin on Thu May 15, 2008 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| erwin wrote: | | Xtian wrote: | Fighter 1/sorcerer 6/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight7 .
BAB 17 CL 17. 9th level spell. Only feat required is combat casting. |
What if i changed fighter with marshal, and making it:
Marshal 2/sorcerer 6/abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 6
although it has lower caster lvl and BAB, it has Aura!
Just want to use that Cha bonus for something |
Why not paladin or hexblade? The 2nd level of these classes will really make your day if you've got a high Cha score.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3260 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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erwin
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Master of None
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| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | | Why not paladin or hexblade? The 2nd level of these classes will really make your day if you've got a high Cha score. |
i'm not good in playing paladin, mainly beacuse it is a lawful good char.. But i'll try the hexblade, i think it's better than marshal
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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